Baptized in the Holy Spirit

12/5/2007

I have a question if you have a minute or two. A lot of the people I’m around are from a Pentecostal background and I hear things like “I was a so-so Christian until I received the baptism.” Or, I’ve heard referenced the sin they might have had a hard time struggling with in the “BB” days (before baptism) and God totally transformed their lives. All the people that talk like this believe that the Holy Spirit is evidenced in speaking in tongues and they have received power from on High to go out and do the works of God—greater boldness in sharing Christ, seeing miracles in their lives, etc…My question is, Is there such a thing as a “second experience” or, “being baptized in the Holy Spirit” after coming legitimately to Christ in the first place? I know Jesus said to tarry until you receive “Power from on High.” I just ask, because this has come up and will probably come up over and over.

Thanks, Love,

Hi…Quickly, a “second experience” is possible, but not mandatory to walk in Power. So is a “third experience” and “fourth,” by the way. But, be assured that God’s Intent is not “a-b-c” Holy Spirit Baptism games, that the denominations and movements who have pressed such a manufactured doctrine have PROVEN beyond any doubt by the great lukewarmness, and darkness in their midst CANNOT be “the Answer” they claim it is. “Wisdom is proved Right by her CHILDREN.” By it’s Fruit. Or lack thereof.

So, here are some thoughts: The merger of the two things (Conversion—with God coming to live within—is the ONLY kind of Conversion—Romans 8:9 ) with His Life and Power are NORMATIVE, not something you “get” later. Paul does NOT Teach such a thing, nor do any of the Apostles. There are CIRCUMSTANCES in Acts where things seem to happen out of “sequence” due to something “NEW” God was doing (as with Gentiles for the FIRST TIME ON EARTH), or bad teaching, or lack of Giftedness (Acts 10, Acts 19:1-6, Acts 8 are examples of each). However, “TONGUES” are NOT “the Sign” (as Assembly of God flies as their flagship doctrine)—I guarantee you. Not in Scripture, and not in reality. Wrong. Just a way to start a denomination and hold people captive with leverage, much as the CofC does with “correct magic words over baptism” and the catholics do with “mass” and “confession” and “priests”.

However, “tongues” CAN be as real as ANY Gift in the Bible (though seldom is the REAL thing happening in denominations or people who are seduced into “it”), if it is something God has done. That gift is JUST as real and alive in potential as any other Gift He mentions or gives. Does “everyone” have to have any particular gift to demonstrate GOD lives within? No way. Or to demonstrate God is empowering their lives? No way. “Are ALL apostles? Prophets? Teachers?” NO WAY. Gifts are given as the HOLY SPIRIT wills, not by men’s claims and games. And plenty of folks we know can tell HORROR STORIES of the dark counterfeit lives and “gifts” and witchcraft of those who lusted for esteem and power and gifts and were seduced into such by the bad teaching around them. Woe to those “teachers.”

For you? Seek the greater gifts, walk in love, and DO ALL YOU DO FOR JESUS AND OTHERS, not your own ego or “ministry” or self-esteem, as they teach and practice. The “they” who teach such things (Vineyard is an example you are very familiar with, with doctrines that are very similar to assembly of god, but just more “flexible” to get more members) have NO MORE LIFE IN THEM, OR FRUIT than a Baptist congregation would have. There are VERY special servants of God amongst the Baptist that rival or surpass ANYONE who claims they have a “miracle second experience” that is mandatory to have “Power from on High.” Hmmmm.

By the way, Jesus said the thing you mentioned (“WAIT UNTIL!”) BEFORE PENTECOST. Of course that was true to them. The Holy Spirit “was not yet given” because there was no “New Covenant” yet! You knew that. : ) The whole CONVERSION thing was not Worked out yet, until Acts 2:36-42. And therefore the Jesus “had been with you, but shall be IN you” Covenant that CHANGES EVERYTHING from the prophecies of “know the Lord, know the Lord” to THE “GOD’S SPIRIT WITHIN” COVENANT…and it is EVERYTHING to us. : )

Gotta run. On a personal note, I have had several such “experiences”—and ongoing Stuff : )—not limited to a “second” experience” by any stretch. Nor was Paul, if you read his history. That is bogus “doctrine” and “over-simplifies” what the Biblical record shows about the Matter. Primarily, I know this: NEVER was anything done in my life by God “because I had the right doctrine about whatever” or “sought gifts” for my own edification or esteem or “place,” for pity’s sake. : ) If we ONLY SEEK TO MAKE KNOWN THE ONE WHO SENT US and LOVE ONE ANOTHER…HE will give us whatever is required for the Task HE entrusts to us, day-by-day, ever-changing. He gives a hammer to those He wants to pound nails and be framers. He gives a wrench and a propane torch to those HE entrusts to do the Work of “plumbing”—figuratively speaking. He is the Master Builder and gives Gifts and Tools for the TASK He has in mind for that time and that place, and the faithfulness of His People. Period. The “ink blot test” “spiritual gifts inventory” and the AG mandates are unBiblical, atrocious fruit, and barking up the wrong tree. But GIFTS are Real. : )

Love,